Apr 10, 2011, 09:12 AM // 09:12
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#1
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Forge Runner
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Why vanquishing and missions are meaningless for comparison
Some people have posted variants of "I did all missions / VQs with this build and had no trouble", or "I don't care about how fast I do things, I care about no micro + finishing whatever I set out to do" in support of their builds.
Here is why this argument is completely meaningless.
I ran all the Animate spells I could find on the Necro, except I ran out of Animate spells and had to run Masochism and Malign Intervention for more / higher level minions ...
I ran all the Channeling spirits I could find, then ran out of them and just used three resses ...
I ran all the offensive Communing spirits I could find with some energy management and more resses (of course) ...
I ran 20 Fire Flare spam with Mark of Rodgort + Conjure Flame on myself and Vekk ...
I used the first eight alphabetical non-elite Healing Prayers spells for Tahlkora and the first eight Protection Prayers spells for Dunkoro ...
I used my never-before-used Jora, who still has default skills ...
... and I vanquished Mount Qinkai without problems! I did no micro, I ran up to mobs to cast Double Dragon, I found out that wanding with Conjure Flame does almost as much damage as Flare spam does, and I had no problems. Kill speed + run speed was atrociously slow compared to the builds I'm used to running, but I had no problems.
In short: being able to do vanquishes and missions is no indication of a build's strength. All good builds should be able to do VQs and missions with no problems, but the converse is not true.
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Apr 10, 2011, 09:41 AM // 09:41
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#2
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fissure of Woe
Guild: [LOD]/[GS]/[DL]/[LOD*]
Profession: N/P
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This should be a sticky
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Apr 10, 2011, 09:43 AM // 09:43
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#3
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Guild: Gil Worz Is Srs [Bsns]
Profession: W/
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This should clearly be the new hero meta
Last edited by Outerworld; Apr 10, 2011 at 09:44 AM // 09:44..
Reason: I need to proof read more...
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Apr 10, 2011, 10:01 AM // 10:01
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#4
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ign: Miniature Julia
Guild: Teh Academy[PhD]
Profession: W/
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Okey?
12chars
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Apr 10, 2011, 10:06 AM // 10:06
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#5
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2008
Profession: Mo/
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Good work,
your next challenge is to bring as little skills as possibly on your bars, maybe just 1-2 skills each
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Apr 10, 2011, 10:14 AM // 10:14
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#6
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Oct 2006
Profession: E/
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Lol, my eyes hurt initially when I saw your builds without reading what you intended to do. While what you say is true for some areas, other areas would pose problems with a similar build. It just so happens that most areas can be ran with almost any build. It also so happens that people want to say their particular build is the most efficient.
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Apr 10, 2011, 10:20 AM // 10:20
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#7
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Italy, Turin
Guild: Lake
Profession: E/
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Use it for all 100ish areas of gw.
I mean, all we know that VQing isn't THE way to rate a build, cause all non-mediocre build scaled for HM will do. Can't really see the point.
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Apr 10, 2011, 10:42 AM // 10:42
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#8
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fissure of Woe
Guild: [LOD]/[GS]/[DL]/[LOD*]
Profession: N/P
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That's the whole point of the thread. A rather large number of people think their build is amazing because it can handle a few HM vanquishes/missions.
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Apr 10, 2011, 10:51 AM // 10:51
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#9
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Desert Nomad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra
In short: being able to do vanquishes and missions is no indication of a build's strength. All good builds should be able to do VQs and missions with no problems, but the converse is not true.
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Mmmhkay.
To back this up, did you REALLY need to try it yourself, take screenshots and then report back?
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Apr 10, 2011, 10:56 AM // 10:56
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#10
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Home
Guild: En Caligne Veritas [DARK]
Profession: R/Rt
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Sticky this, someone!
This is so true!
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Apr 10, 2011, 11:10 AM // 11:10
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#11
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Desert Nomad
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This build sucks... Lacks Echo Mending
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Apr 10, 2011, 11:25 AM // 11:25
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#12
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: England
Profession: A/
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Using a shit team build on MQ, which is one of the easiest vanquishes in the game, doesn't prove anything. You could run much worse builds through MQ, with 2-3 skills per hero if you really wanted to. You were still using 3 pretty core heroes, 2x spirit spammers and a MM, you could probably do the vanquish with just those 3 heroes if you had heal area somewhere.
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Apr 10, 2011, 11:29 AM // 11:29
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#13
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Nov 2009
Guild: Elite Mercenaries of Abaddon [ema] and Dhuum [emd]
Profession: W/
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I did all missions, VQs, dungeons and elite areas with my build while playing with various people and sometimes heroes and had no trouble.
There, I fixed that.
+100 internet points for you Sir for this thread!
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Apr 10, 2011, 11:45 AM // 11:45
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#14
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt Vernon, Ohio
Guild: Band of the Hawk
Profession: W/Mo
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Mount Qinkai is an easy Vanquish intended to provide quick Luxon faction. Though in general your idea is true.
If there are mobs with heavy hexes, Mesmer with Hex Eater Vortex and Shatter Hex can help a lot. Areas heavy with conditions, Dervish running Avatar of Melandru helps a lot. But often you can power your way through anyway I will admit.
Example Mamnoon Lagoon. Four characters VQ'd it. All started with identical heroes and identical general PvE builds for heroes.
1. Ranger: No problems, just another day. Pet Build with Haste and Otyugh's Cry.
2. Warrior: Chop nasty Wind Riders up with Axe auto attacks. No problems.
3. Paragon: Rough ride. Semi Imbagon build not the best idea. Not enough DPS. But finished.
4. Assassin: Caster mode. Got crushed like right away. Hopeless.
Switched to Daggers, threw on Shadow Form; overkill was Hex Eater Vortex on Mesmer with Shatter Hex. Easy run. So, it depends on a lot of things.
Jeydra, have you tried this in Majesty's Rest? Curious.
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Apr 10, 2011, 12:26 PM // 12:26
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#15
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Underworld
Profession: Mo/
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GOGOGO Jokos domain / majesty's rest and then qq
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Apr 10, 2011, 01:36 PM // 13:36
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#16
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Apr 2007
Guild: DMFC
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Mount qinkai is one bad example of a place to vq - and its mainly down to the case of any build can be used in the team and still do it - its one of the easiest places going.
Ive vq mq with builds that not even a noob would run - eg ursin ( ursan , aos and any dagger fillers ) in a team with 2 monks and the last 5 in team used what they wanted - no team synergy or build synergy and we still vq in 20 mins with very little probs.
It can even be done same time using hench , heros , mercs with no set team builds.
Hell i dont even micro my heros - i tend to let them get on with things themselves.
Remember gw and its campaigns have been around for a few years now so players have that much more exp of zones , little exploits like using terrain and which bosses can be pulled away from groups and this info gets passed along.
Some Dungeons can be done with as little as 3 players , some places can be vq with just 1 or 2 players which when gw was released and hm + vq was thought of - they thought of full party rather than us players evolving gameplay and being ahead of the challenge and using smaller parties.
I think in gw history probably the best example of us beating anet would be the old 55 monk who has been around for ages in form or another - and even a few years ago the nerf to mystic regen only made the 55 mo/d revert bk to old school 55.
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Apr 10, 2011, 01:44 PM // 13:44
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#17
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Jungle Guide
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I had a different interpretation of this. Heroes are going to run a bad build better than the average GW player would. Some of those builds are easily PuG worthy.
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Apr 10, 2011, 02:03 PM // 14:03
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#18
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Tea Powered
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Profession: N/
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A testament to the power of skills like Signet of Spirits?
Or is Flare OP?
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Apr 10, 2011, 02:13 PM // 14:13
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#19
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Amsterdam
Guild: For The Motherland
Profession: A/Rt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88
This build sucks... Lacks Echo Mending
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You did not read his post, did you?
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Apr 10, 2011, 02:16 PM // 14:16
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#20
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Nov 2007
Guild: Girls Pee Pee When They See [ME]
Profession: N/Mo
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I love this kind of stuff. I love the fact that people will run "what most think is crap" and get away with it.
Like the other day when I went to Depths of Destruction with a human team. We already had an SoS, and 3 melee/ranged characters.....Plus during the quest you get the 3 golems that we can set to melee.
I got ripped into about wanting to run Echo, Gdw, splinter...then a bunch of fill in skills. No one could see the point of echo. Echo gdw...fill in with spinter, but i digress
The only thing I see about your build is... You still have a MM and 2 spirit spammers. Yes, you can more or less build anything around this combination, because it takes so much pressure off your party.
In my mind, if you want to further validate your thoughts.....take out at least 2 of the 3 or all of them and then let us know how things go.
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